Raihan Ismail Says Terrorist Attack on Australia Unlikely
FROM - http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/qa-recap-terror-attacks-in-australia-drone-strikes-and-radicalised-youth/news-story/0420d9a44ac549230f4b6a7b36abfbec
AN AUSTRALIAN military strategist and counterterrorism expert has warned that Australia will inevitably face a terrorist attack.
On the latest episode of Q&A, an audience member asked whether our approach to dealing with Islamic State is too “cautious” in terms of infringing human rights and offending our Muslim population.
“It is inevitable that we are going to see some kind of terrorist attack here in Australia,” said David Kilcullen.
“I don’t mean to be pessimistic, but I think we have to be realistic that if you think the Government can protect you from any kind of terrorist attack, you are living in dream land. Just like these things happen in other countries, they will inevitably happen in Australia also.”
However, he said we need to tread carefully in terms of how we address the issue.
“It’s worth remembering that the people we are dealing with, ISIS’ specialisation is provoking sectarian conflict and getting different groups of people fighting each other so they can exploit that. So while we do want to take a hard hand towards terrorism, it’s really important to ensure we are not accidentally generating the kinds of dynamics that give rise to that sectarian conflict at the same time. It is a balance.”
Raihan Ismail echoed this sentiment, saying that conflict is exactly what the terror group wants.
However, she disagreed with Kilcullen’s prediction that a terrorist attack in Australia is inevitable.
“Australia is very different. I think multiculturalism is a good model in Australia, and we need to reinstate the spirit of multiculturalism in this country. When you look at Muslims in Australia, what’s the population? 2.2 per cent. It is a small number and Muslims in this country are better integrated compared to some of the European countries, for example, so we can’t really exaggerate the threat of terrorist attacks happening in Australia.
“One thing that is also, you know, quite important to keep in mind is the fact that when you exaggerate the threat of terrorism in Australia, there are consequences. When you look at that, you are empowering ISIS because that’s exactly what they want. They want you to think that they are a strong force, that they can come and attack you. You are empowering the rhetoric of ISIS and that is something that we really have to avoid because we can’t let them dictate and make us afraid.”
The effectiveness of drone campaigns by democratic governments was also questioned, given the risk it poses to innocent people in target areas.
David Kilcullen said the use of drones has declined a lot over the last few years, but added: “Because we don’t have to put our troops on the line, it is kind of easier for politicians to make decisions that may hurt other populations, but don’t hurt ours.”
“We have created a set of international norms now which says it is okay to strike a target in somebody else’s country in time of peace as long as it meets our own domestic political and legal requirements. Once other countries have those kinds of drones, maybe we will look back on that and say, “It seemed like a pretty good idea at the time, but maybe not.”
When asked about the use of drones to kill terrorist leaders, Minister for Justice Michael Keenan said it’s a legitimate thing for Australian governments to do, and that it deserves a robust debate.
“The Australian Government doesn’t participate in that directly, but our allies do, and we support them in those goals.
“A drone is no different from an aircraft, just happens to deliver its payload in a very different way and I would be keen to do whatever we can do stay on top of this enemy.”
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs Tanya Plibersek said: “Well, I think for both moral and strategic reasons, you have to avoid civilian casualties and the rules of engagement that Australians are fighting under in Iraq and in the air missions over Syria are very tight and very clearly aimed to avoid civilian casualties.”
Kilcullen stressed that Australian aircraft have a good reputation for avoiding civilian casualties, and not dropping bombs if they are not completely sure of what they are dropping on. He said this is a “well-known feature of Australian style... which a lot of countries don’t follow.”
Eldad Beck said it was important to remember that “the number one victim of ISIS are Muslims.” He said this was not just a problem of the West, but something with a much bigger global impact, particularly in the Middle East.
“I think it should at a certain point also be solved by the Middle East, and I would, you know we are seeing all these refugees coming to Europe, to other places. I think that it would be wrong to start a discussion about integrating them in the societies where they are coming to. These people should get organised in order to free their countries. We could not have a Middle East free of all those good people leaving us and left to people like ISIS. Quite on the contrary, they should be mobilised.”
Keenan said Australia is changing the nature of schools, or having specific agencies set up to identify children who may be at risk of moving down this path.
“What we are doing is training people who are on the frontline, such as teachers and others in the school community, to identify the sorts of signs that students might be exhibiting if they are moving down this dark path of violence and radicalisation.”
He referred to the case of Curtis Cheng, a police officer who was shot down by a 15-year-old boy last year in October, as he was leaving headquarters at Parramatta.
“We also know that ISIL is targeting people younger and younger. They were initially targeting people in their 20s, then those in their late teens, and we now know, because we have good information about this, they are targeting people in their early teens.”
So who can judge whether or not a young school student is exhibiting signs of extremism?
“They will exhibit certain behaviours. If they have made contact with someone in the Middle East, if they are being groomed in the same way that a paedophile might groom a victim, their behaviour will change. What we want is the service providers - in this instance, teachers in the school community - to say, ‘hang on, that student’s behaviour is changing in a way that is of concern to me.’
“The earlier we can intervene, identify that, the earlier we can save this child from this awful path of violence.”
Raihan hit back at this, asking if we are going to retrain teachers in criminology to do the jobs of intelligence agencies.
She also expressed concern that Muslims already struggle living in this country, and exactly how one can identify “signs” of extremism.
Michael Keenan stressed that if a child is going down this path, their behaviour will change. “It’s not like you just pick a gun and go and shoot someone. There is a whole process you go through.”
“But teenagers change. Teenagers behave differently. When you were 16 --’
“It’s not just a matter of teenage rebellion,” Keenan responded. “If you are undergoing a process where the end result is you would undertake an act of domestic terror ... your behaviour in the lead-up to that is going to change. We are not changing the nature of teaching, but giving them an extra skill set to be able to identify it and say there is a concern here that we need to identify.”
Tanya Plibersek said our best way to keep Australians safe is to have good community.
“We know that there are some dangerous, poisonous people not just recruiting online, but
also in our Australian community, trying to lead young people astray. Our first best defence against that is making sure that we’ve got good insights into the community, good communications, and that we pick that up very quickly.”
AN AUSTRALIAN military strategist and counterterrorism expert has warned that Australia will inevitably face a terrorist attack.
On the latest episode of Q&A, an audience member asked whether our approach to dealing with Islamic State is too “cautious” in terms of infringing human rights and offending our Muslim population.
“It is inevitable that we are going to see some kind of terrorist attack here in Australia,” said David Kilcullen.
“I don’t mean to be pessimistic, but I think we have to be realistic that if you think the Government can protect you from any kind of terrorist attack, you are living in dream land. Just like these things happen in other countries, they will inevitably happen in Australia also.”
However, he said we need to tread carefully in terms of how we address the issue.
“It’s worth remembering that the people we are dealing with, ISIS’ specialisation is provoking sectarian conflict and getting different groups of people fighting each other so they can exploit that. So while we do want to take a hard hand towards terrorism, it’s really important to ensure we are not accidentally generating the kinds of dynamics that give rise to that sectarian conflict at the same time. It is a balance.”
Raihan Ismail echoed this sentiment, saying that conflict is exactly what the terror group wants.
However, she disagreed with Kilcullen’s prediction that a terrorist attack in Australia is inevitable.
“Australia is very different. I think multiculturalism is a good model in Australia, and we need to reinstate the spirit of multiculturalism in this country. When you look at Muslims in Australia, what’s the population? 2.2 per cent. It is a small number and Muslims in this country are better integrated compared to some of the European countries, for example, so we can’t really exaggerate the threat of terrorist attacks happening in Australia.
“One thing that is also, you know, quite important to keep in mind is the fact that when you exaggerate the threat of terrorism in Australia, there are consequences. When you look at that, you are empowering ISIS because that’s exactly what they want. They want you to think that they are a strong force, that they can come and attack you. You are empowering the rhetoric of ISIS and that is something that we really have to avoid because we can’t let them dictate and make us afraid.”
The effectiveness of drone campaigns by democratic governments was also questioned, given the risk it poses to innocent people in target areas.
David Kilcullen said the use of drones has declined a lot over the last few years, but added: “Because we don’t have to put our troops on the line, it is kind of easier for politicians to make decisions that may hurt other populations, but don’t hurt ours.”
“We have created a set of international norms now which says it is okay to strike a target in somebody else’s country in time of peace as long as it meets our own domestic political and legal requirements. Once other countries have those kinds of drones, maybe we will look back on that and say, “It seemed like a pretty good idea at the time, but maybe not.”
When asked about the use of drones to kill terrorist leaders, Minister for Justice Michael Keenan said it’s a legitimate thing for Australian governments to do, and that it deserves a robust debate.
“The Australian Government doesn’t participate in that directly, but our allies do, and we support them in those goals.
“A drone is no different from an aircraft, just happens to deliver its payload in a very different way and I would be keen to do whatever we can do stay on top of this enemy.”
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs Tanya Plibersek said: “Well, I think for both moral and strategic reasons, you have to avoid civilian casualties and the rules of engagement that Australians are fighting under in Iraq and in the air missions over Syria are very tight and very clearly aimed to avoid civilian casualties.”
Kilcullen stressed that Australian aircraft have a good reputation for avoiding civilian casualties, and not dropping bombs if they are not completely sure of what they are dropping on. He said this is a “well-known feature of Australian style... which a lot of countries don’t follow.”
Eldad Beck said it was important to remember that “the number one victim of ISIS are Muslims.” He said this was not just a problem of the West, but something with a much bigger global impact, particularly in the Middle East.
“I think it should at a certain point also be solved by the Middle East, and I would, you know we are seeing all these refugees coming to Europe, to other places. I think that it would be wrong to start a discussion about integrating them in the societies where they are coming to. These people should get organised in order to free their countries. We could not have a Middle East free of all those good people leaving us and left to people like ISIS. Quite on the contrary, they should be mobilised.”
Keenan said Australia is changing the nature of schools, or having specific agencies set up to identify children who may be at risk of moving down this path.
“What we are doing is training people who are on the frontline, such as teachers and others in the school community, to identify the sorts of signs that students might be exhibiting if they are moving down this dark path of violence and radicalisation.”
He referred to the case of Curtis Cheng, a police officer who was shot down by a 15-year-old boy last year in October, as he was leaving headquarters at Parramatta.
“We also know that ISIL is targeting people younger and younger. They were initially targeting people in their 20s, then those in their late teens, and we now know, because we have good information about this, they are targeting people in their early teens.”
So who can judge whether or not a young school student is exhibiting signs of extremism?
“They will exhibit certain behaviours. If they have made contact with someone in the Middle East, if they are being groomed in the same way that a paedophile might groom a victim, their behaviour will change. What we want is the service providers - in this instance, teachers in the school community - to say, ‘hang on, that student’s behaviour is changing in a way that is of concern to me.’
“The earlier we can intervene, identify that, the earlier we can save this child from this awful path of violence.”
Raihan hit back at this, asking if we are going to retrain teachers in criminology to do the jobs of intelligence agencies.
She also expressed concern that Muslims already struggle living in this country, and exactly how one can identify “signs” of extremism.
Michael Keenan stressed that if a child is going down this path, their behaviour will change. “It’s not like you just pick a gun and go and shoot someone. There is a whole process you go through.”
“But teenagers change. Teenagers behave differently. When you were 16 --’
“It’s not just a matter of teenage rebellion,” Keenan responded. “If you are undergoing a process where the end result is you would undertake an act of domestic terror ... your behaviour in the lead-up to that is going to change. We are not changing the nature of teaching, but giving them an extra skill set to be able to identify it and say there is a concern here that we need to identify.”
Tanya Plibersek said our best way to keep Australians safe is to have good community.
“We know that there are some dangerous, poisonous people not just recruiting online, but
also in our Australian community, trying to lead young people astray. Our first best defence against that is making sure that we’ve got good insights into the community, good communications, and that we pick that up very quickly.”
Comments
Post a Comment